Study arguments presented by Moderate Muslims

Discussion in 'Is This Islam?' started by PRODOS, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. PRODOS

    PRODOS Moderator Staff Member

    Updated: Friday September 07 2014

    Introduction
    • Do Moderate Muslims have a valid theological case for Moderate Islam? Progressive Islam? Liberal Islam?
    • What are their arguments against terrorism and groups that promote or engage in violence in the name of Islam?
    • Some Moderate Muslims argue for reforming Islam. What do they base this on? What would a reformed Islam look like?
    • Do they promote Sharia? If so, how do they define it? And what is their theological (or other) basis for defining it so?

    Individuals & Organisations who argue for Moderate Islam:

    (more soon)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  2. Barboo Marinakis

    Barboo Marinakis New Member

    [ ... ]

    How do you reform a religion whose founding documents are held by that religion to be the direct word of their god?

    And where the human "messenger" who brought that word of his god to the believers is held to be the most perfect example to be followed?

    It's a religion that claims that both Christianity and Judaism started out as Islam - their prophets were given the same Koran as Muhammad - but their followers corrupted it.

    Reference: Replying to Daniel Pipes, Shamim A. Siddiqi, author of Methodology of Dawah, writes:

    Mr. Pipes forgets that Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were all prophets of Islam. Islam is the common heritage of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim community of America, and establishing the kingdom of God on earth is the joint responsibility of all three Abrahamic faiths.

    Islam was the din (faith, way of life) of both Jews and Christians, who later lost it through human innovations. Now the Muslims want to remind their Jewish and Christian brothers and sisters of their original din. These are the facts of history.​

    Reference: Koran, chapter 2 verse 213 -- With clarifying insertions by Shamim A. Siddiqi's, Looking for the Book of Wisdom, page 10:​

    “Mankind were one community [in the beginning] and God sent unto them Prophets [whenever the guidance was lost] as bearers of good tidings and as warners and revealed therewith the Scripture [Guidance] with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed [due to human innovations in the guidance with lapse of time]. And only those upto whom [the Scripture] was given differed concerning it, after clear proof had come unto them, through hatred one of the other [the cause of making innovations]. And God by His will guided [by sending new Prophets and updating Guidance] those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. God guides whom He will unto a straight path.”​

    Now a bunch of Westernised - that is kafirized - Muslims are going to reform the stuff in the Koran and the example of Muhammad's life? How do you do that? How do you interpret that stuff away?

    And if you try, how does that change anything, when the books still say what they say, and there will always be pure believers who will take the original works as they are, and view the reformers as traitors to Allah, to Muhammad, and thus to Islam, and call for their execution as apostates and corrupters?

    All you do is start a new sect of Islam that will be just another target for jihad - just as the various sects of Islam fight each other today.

    This is not a religion that's set up at the foundation for peaceful coexistence. Muhammad wasn't nice like Jesus, who told his followers to leave unbelievers and those who insulted himself or the followers alone.

    Wipe the dust of the town off your feet and walk away, Jesus said. Let it go. Turn the other cheek. Let God do whatever he will about it. It's not up to you to punish people for what they believe.

    Christian references:

    Matthew 10:34: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

    Matthew 5:39: "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."​

    See, that gives you a model for tolerance and peace.

    Muhammad said to kill apostates and approved when his followers killed people who mocked him. He led wars in order to spread his religion.

    Moderator: Could Barboo or someone else provide supporting Islamic references, please.

    Not a promising start for a peaceful future.

    So I'm very interested in seeing if the reformers can find a way around all of that. Because with the violent example of the Prophet himself being part of the core of the religion, I don't see how it can be done. It's a corruption of a corrupt ideology - a corruption in the right direction, sure. But with all the horrific stuff in the ideology and the example of it's most ideal man, It seems to me better to risk one's life by leaving the religion, rather than risk it by trying to do the impossible.


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    Moderator's notes:

    • Opening sentence snipped without affecting argument.
    • Some references and links added.
    • Request for further references added.
    • Some minor reformatting, for easier reading and greater emphasis of points made.
    • Regarding references: There is no strict policy on this thread at present regarding how thoroughly referenced a post needs to be. Posters may use their discretion. If Moderator feels more references are needed, he'll either add them himself or request it from contributors.
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2014
  3. PRODOS

    PRODOS Moderator Staff Member

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